Can a company carry out the basic design on its own?
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We are preparing to launch a new large-scale chemical project, with the process packages being imported from abroad. The boss has requested that the project’s technology be kept confidential, and that we handle the basic design work ourselves. (For a new factory, there are no designers – only production technicians.) I think this is not appropriate for the following reasons: 1. The company does not have the necessary design qualifications, and design firms that are tasked with carrying out detailed designs may not agree to use the materials provided ； 2. The company’s own design capabilities and the number of professionals are limited, making it very difficult to complete the tasks ； 3. There are significant problems for production staff when it comes to design: familiarity with design standards, use of design software, etc. 4. Even if one carries out the design themselves, who will review it? The design process can be very long, and it’s not worth it ； 5. Confidentiality is very important; it can be ensured by signing confidentiality agreements, as well as through other means. 6. Large-scale chemical manufacturing requires substantial investment, involves continuous production, and presents complex control challenges. Unlike ordinary fine chemicals, the requirements set by various regulations are very strict. What are everyone’s thoughts? Is there such a precedent?
Generally, there’s no such precedent; a few years ago, our unit simply handled the preparation of the process package by ourselves.
Companies are unable to carry out basic design work due to a lack of the necessary qualifications; such design work requires approval, and only design firms with the appropriate qualifications can undertake it
Companies do not have the qualifications to carry out design work, unless large chemical conglomerates have design institutes with the necessary qualifications to handle such tasks. There is also the need to prepare documentation for safety, environmental protection, and occupational health and hygiene, and it’s likely that companies do not have the capability to do so. Confidential companies should sign confidentiality agreements with the design firms they engage, in order to prevent those firms from designing for third parties for their own benefit and thereby causing the leakage of technology. This post was last edited by wsts00100 on 2008-2-25 14:29.]
Engineering design requires appropriate design qualifications; different investment scales demand different levels of qualification. Considering factors such as the safety and reliability of the design, projects need to be carried out by specialized design firms. Investors can put forward their own requirements. As for confidentiality, it is generally achieved by signing a confidentiality agreement. Of course, other situations can also lead to leaks. It depends on the specific terms. Companies do not have the qualifications for such basic design work. If a security issue arises, it involves someone who is related to it. This needs to be considered. My project involves imported components; all design firms are required to sign confidentiality agreements before being provided with the relevant design documents.
You can design it yourself and just have the design institute stamp it. The design institute will surely accept it as well.
Yes, companies cannot carry out the preliminary design work as they lack the necessary qualifications for design; preliminary design requires **approval**, and only design firms with the appropriate qualifications can undertake this task
It’s best to find a design firm you’re familiar with, so you can seek advice and communicate promptly if there are any issues. Of course, you can also design it on your own.
The key is how to pass the review and how to confirm its validity
It is necessary to approach a design institute for the design work. As for the issue of confidentiality, a confidentiality agreement will be signed; it is part of the basic professional ethics of design institutes to keep information confidential for the client. Additionally, you can hide certain technical details in the process documents or use codes to refer to specific materials. I’ve encountered such situations on many occasions, and design institutes are competent at ensuring confidentiality.
It’s definitely possible to do it; the question is whether one has the necessary capabilities. Additionally, it’s necessary to find a design institute with good relationships that will be willing to issue the approval stamps (with the concept of lifelong responsibility for design work, this might not be easy, and besides, those firms want to make money from you as well). Giving up cooperation with design firms entirely just to maintain technical secrecy and handling everything independently seems to bring more disadvantages than advantages ； Moreover, the company itself does not yet have engineers capable of taking on design responsibilities, which is irresponsible both toward the company and the individuals involved. As suggested by the classmate above, use the material codes from the process package, design the key equipment by yourself, and keep the parameters confidential.
I think the design institute can handle the basic design aspects, with confidentiality agreements in place to ensure compliance; as for the parts that require confidentiality, the technical staff can make the necessary adjustments based on the actual conditions of the project. Otherwise, as you said, it will not only prolong the construction period but also likely increase costs, resulting in outcomes that are not worth the effort.
Friends on the fourth floor, if there are certain design firms that simply do not abide by the agreements, it would be good to expose them, so as to serve as a warning to everyone.
1. The company does not have the necessary design qualifications, so it is unable to carry out basic design work. 2. Operators and designers are different types of personnel; operators understand production processes, but they are not familiar with many regulations and design manuals, nor with the calculations involved. It’s simply impossible to carry out basic design. 3. Confidentiality isn’t an issue; when that design institute works for other clients, it doesn’t provide the process packages – everything is kept confidential. As long as a confidentiality agreement is signed with the design institute, it can be strictly enforced. There’s absolutely no need to keep it as secret as if it were nuclear weapons development – your boss has lost his head;P Last edited by safetyvalve on 2008-2-25 15:46]
Companies that have design institutes under them can handle this task; otherwise, it’s better not to attempt it. Foundation design is also a systematic endeavor. Companies have an advantage in terms of their familiarity with manufacturing processes, but foundation design involves aspects such as occupational safety, environmental protection, industrial hygiene, fire protection, water supply and drainage, heating, and so on. In particular, understanding the relevant standards and regulations is something that company employees often struggle with
Absolutely, sure. Although I work in a design institute now, I have to say that some people’s skills are far inferior to those of those working in companies. After all, designers in companies monitor projects throughout their entire duration, and often, issues with the design process become apparent only during implementation. However, for drawings to be used in construction, they must bear the seal of the design institute… And the design institute has the right to request the original materials related to the drawings you’ve completed…
I am extremely grateful for everyone’s help. I assume there is legal responsibility associated with designing a signature, right? If an accident occurs in the future, design responsibility will definitely be investigated. Since our company used to be in the fine chemicals industry, and I thought fine chemicals were relatively simple, the bosses decided to handle the design work themselves. However, the safety and fire protection aspects are still handled by the design institute. I need to put in effort to convince the boss! The task is daunting! Could everyone provide some solid evidence? Like, if you design a problem? Technical leaks from the design institute? Thank you! :handshake
Your boss is really not impressive at all; in industries like chemicals, there’s even a fear of information leaks. A top expert at BASF once said that with all our projects, if we were to disclose all the relevant information, it would take 20 or 30 years before others could truly understand it
All chemical engineering projects must undergo evaluation by high-level experts before design work is commissioned to a design institute. Companies generally do not have the necessary qualifications; minor technical modifications can be carried out on their own. Our company handled the conversion from oil to gas on its own, but for larger projects, it’s better to rely on a design institute. If something goes wrong when trying to handle such projects on one’s own, that’s a problem
I used to work in design for companies as well. Larger companies have their own design departments, similar to small design firms; they handle the design work for their own projects and then have those designs approved by the design firms. After all, companies are more familiar with production processes, so the designs they create meet the requirements of production better.
Fully agree! After all, isn’t the design developed by the design institute also determined through repeated consultations with the client? Regarding issues related to design qualifications, they indeed need to be given proper attention. But it just requires having the relevant authorities review it and stamp it. Were the new processes, new procedures, and new complete sets of equipment developed by Basf designed by that design institute for Basf? It was still myself who did it!