Discussion on further adjustments to the new point system–(End: Slight tweaks to the 27th-floor proposal)

The boss’s ideas are becoming increasingly mature and practical; after all, the points of the users in the forum should be arranged in a pyramid shape, with the majority being ordinary users, and the lively atmosphere of the forum depends on them. If they are kept stuck at the third grade of elementary school, it is also detrimental to boosting their motivation. I think this plan is feasible. Additionally, I think the gap between each level should be related to the number of people at that level, creating a tiered structure, which would be great. This post was last edited by kaisl1314 on 2008-3-3 08:42.]

I think the reading permissions for management teams can be set higher; there’s no need to adjust the points for user groups. We should stick to the principle that \"only hard work yields rewards\"

It is recommended that the fifth year in HaiChuan University be abolished; universities offering chemical engineering programs have a 4-year curriculum, while medical schools have programs that last 5 or 6 years. This way, those with high technical skills and a strong enthusiasm for activity will have something to look forward to. Additionally, on each person’s profile, their management title and technical title are listed together, which helps members to seek targeted assistance in technical discussions. It is recommended that the gap between fourth-year university students and master’s students at HaiChuan Research Institute remain at 500. The difference between master’s students and doctoral students at the same institute is also too large; it may be impossible to bridge that gap. Having more master’s and doctoral students at HaiChuan is beneficial for the institute. This post was last edited by rgsmdqy on 2008-3-3 11:52.]

       Forum points for regular members are mainly related to charm; nowadays, since there is relatively ample information on the forum, it’s more difficult for regular members to earn charm points, and other charm-related contributions, highlights, and prestige are even rarer! However, regular members can earn wealth by posting topic threads (which can be for seeking help, asking questions, or offering suggestions), receiving red envelopes, participating actively, or helping others answer questions. The ratings given for ordinary posts are also mainly aimed at rewarding wealth, so it is relatively easy for regular members to acquire wealth in this way.        In light of the above, I believe that while the forum’s frequent adjustments to membership levels do respond to calls for change and align with public opinion, and can to some extent boost the enthusiasm of regular members, in the long run they are not conducive to fostering and building members’ loyalty, engagement, and commitment. Therefore, such adjustments should be made with caution! However, some compromise solutions can also be adopted at present, such as adjusting the scoring system (the minimum score required for technical evaluation has now been raised to 3 points), organizing various activities actively, and distributing red envelopes. While these measures have been implemented, they only increase the wealth value of ordinary members. Given that there is a ratio of 1:10 between wealth and charm, it is relatively difficult to obtain charm; therefore, efforts can be focused on increasing charm values. For example, regular (but not necessarily fixed) discount exchange events can be held, with the ratio changing from 1:10 to around 1:5 or 1:6. During festivals, ordinary members (those in grades below, for instance) can be given charm values instead of red envelopes! Moreover, the aforementioned scheme is a generalized system of preferences, reflecting an intention to treat Forum members equally and with fairness. On the other hand, it also serves to determine the value of membership rights and to balance wealth and rank.        Regarding the technician’s reading permissions, in my humble opinion, 70 would be a good setting. On the one hand, technicians are subject to evaluations and have responsibilities, but their authorities are roughly the same as those of those in lower positions; as a result, some members who have risen to corresponding levels show no interest in the title of technician. Although there is a path to becoming an engineer, I believe that given the current doubts regarding the capabilities of technicians, it is better to have people with higher titles such as control engineers in charge.        These are my personal suggestions, which may differ from those of the administrators, but they truly reflect what I think is best for the forum. It might be that my approach to things differs from that of the administrator, or I may not have understood certain aspects of their perspective or efforts; please forgive me!

In my opinion, at present the only way for people to get more points is by using wealth to exchange for them. Our moderators and super moderators also tend to add wealth rather than charm when assigning scores, which makes it very difficult for a member to increase their point count. Take me as an example: after becoming an official moderator, I posted around 5 topics per day (except on Sundays when I wasn’t online), but all I got was wealth, while my points didn’t increase at all. So as a result, I can only use my wealth to exchange for points, but if I’m a basic member, my progress in earning points is very slow. So I think adjusting the points is necessary and what everyone expects. At the same time, I suggest that we explore other ways to earn points, such as through referral clicks to promote our forum, or by having referrers register on our forum in order to earn points. Many forums are doing this already, and we can do the same as well. I noticed that in our forum, everyone’s contribution score is basically 0, and only the administrators can increase it. In some other forums, however, people can get their contribution scores increased as long as they recommend others to register. So it is recommended that administrators consider this.

The issue of opening up versus conserving resources. This solution focuses on throttling; why isn’t it open source? Increasing the value of the red envelopes, so that the fixed daily red envelopes become random ones ranging from 1 to 20, would probably make it more fun

If it goes down, I’ll be a high school student. Haha, but after middle school, people no longer pay much attention to scores

  Excessively high scores really don’t mean much for those at the junior high school level and above; the focus of forums should remain on communication. Just think, which is more disappointing: a simple question answered concisely by a primary school student, or an inaccurate answer from someone at a university level? It’s good that the forum has many users at high levels, but it’s important that they have the ability to solve problems. After all, when too much data is uploaded, wealth is replaced by privileges, yet no actual problems are solved; having a high status in such a situation can be detrimental. Expressing personal opinions is by no means aimed at any individual!

In favor of adjustment: If the majority of members in a forum are at an early elementary school level, it simply indicates that the forum is not yet mature. The current system tends to benefit administrators in increasing their wealth and rank, while it is very difficult for ordinary members to advance. By adjusting the ranks of lower-level members, a more balanced distribution among members at various levels is achieved, which helps to motivate ordinary members to participate more actively. It is right not to make adjustments at the high level; it should be about quality over quantity, but those with capabilities should also be given a chance. Everyone should maintain a calm attitude; large disparities in members’ wealth and points are not beneficial – only when everyone does well can the forum thrive.

　　It has long been evident that only a few people are at the junior high school level or above, and the grassroots members of the forum have not been fully engaged, which is detrimental to Haichuan’s long-term development. Our mindset should be to enable the forum members to acquire knowledge at HaiChuan Academy*, while also taking the development of HaiChuan as their own source of joy. 　　         It is highly recommended to lower the requirements for upgrading in lower levels, but the gap between levels should increase as one moves up, in order to encourage more people to contribute to the development of the forum; only then can they upgrade to higher levels.    　　Personally, it was a handbook on chlor-alkali constants that drew me into this field. My goal was achieved; I became part of the HaiChuan community, where I discovered new knowledge and experienced the joy of helping others, which led to strong emotional ties that are hard to break. src="http://bbs.hcbbs.com/images/smilies/default/smile.gif" border=0 smilieid="1"> Level Reading Rights Required Points New students who have not registered 5 0 First grade at Haichuan Primary School 10 6 Second grade at Haichuan Primary School 20 12 Third grade at Haichuan Primary School 30 30 20 30 Fourth grade at Haichuan Primary School 40 60 50 50 Fifth grade at Haichuan Primary School 50 120 100 90 Sixth grade at Haichuan Primary School 60 200 150 180 First grade at Haichuan Junior High School 70 300 200 300 Second grade at Haichuan Junior High School 80 400 300 500 Third grade at Haichuan Junior High School 90 500 400 800 First grade at Haichuan High School 110 700 600 1200 Second grade at Haichuan High School 120 900 800 1800 Third grade at Haichuan High School 130 1100 First year at Haichuan University 140 1500 Second year at Haichuan University 150 2000 Third year at Haichuan University 160 2500 Fourth year at Haichuan University 170 3000 Fifth year at Haichuan University 180 3500 Master’s degree at Haichuan Research Institute 190 5000 Doctoral degree at Haichuan Research Institute 200 8000 Professor at Haichuan University 251 10000 Last edited by yzhms on 2008-3-3 14:52 ]

I’d like to take a different perspective. I don’t think it’s necessary to adjust levels; this is a chemical engineering forum, not a game. Those who have played online games probably know about titles like Legend, Myth, and Journey – their ultimate fate is always destruction. Before starting work, I was someone who came from the world of games, and I’ve seen firsthand how these games go from being at their peak to collapsing. Levels can seem ideal and attractive at first, but once everyone reaches high levels, it becomes difficult to manage things. People with real skills don’t care about levels; their replies and posts are of high quality and stand up to the test of time. With the introduction of levels, many people who just want to take advantage of the situation end up with high levels, while those with real skills, who don’t care about levels, end up with lower levels. This creates an illusion in the forum, and soon the forum becomes meaningless. To be honest, it won’t take more than 2 years! I think the forum should organize more technical activities – technology is the foundation of the forum, and it must remain unshaken. Additionally, I’m not in favor of daily bonuses; those are sufficient for beginners. There’s no need to give them out every day; it’s enough to do so during holidays. Gold should be allowed to shine; it shouldn’t be buried. I saw the recommendation rules proposed by Haiyou, and I think they’re a good way to identify talented people. As I said, only those with real skills can withstand the test and deserve to be recommended – those are true talents. Comparing a chemical engineering forum to a game isn’t appropriate. In short, I hope HaiChuan will continue to thrive, without letting levels undermine its foundation. My analogy might not be perfect, so please offer more meaningful suggestions and opinions for the forum. If you have different views, please let me know... This post was last edited by LangTaoSha on 2008-3-3 21:02

This is a non-utilitarian forum! To be straightforward, I think the boss should have just one opinion – if it’s wrong, then it’s wrong; there’s no need for discussion. I’m the boss, so my word counts; things will be done according to my instructions :)

The overall distribution trend should be a pattern with fewer values at the extremes and relatively more values in the middle, which is more reasonable. To reach a very high level, one must make great efforts.

  I completely agree with you. I used to visit a certain forum.   In 2002, most members of this forum had the rank of soldier or sergeant; only those with real capabilities could earn elite status and points, thereby advancing to the rank of officer. At this time, the atmosphere in forum discussions is the best.   Later, in 2003, the forum changed its upgrade rules: points could be earned by posting messages, and a casual section was added (posting in this section also granted the same number of points as posting in the technical section). As a result, the difficulty of upgrading was reduced, which led many people to post messages in order to get promoted to officer status; at one point, the forum was filled with nothing but reposted content.   After a year, by the beginning of 2004, most of the forum members had reached the rank of non-commissioned officers or junior officers; even generals were common at that time. People joked around saying that there were more generals in Sonic than turtles in the Yongding River~~ (Side note: This forum allowed for the creation of custom sections – anyone who made donations to the forum could create such a section, with the donor serving as its moderator; in other words, they became “officers” through donations. People joked around saying that there were more generals in Sonic than turtles in the Yongding River~~) Yet when it came to the atmosphere of discussion on the forum, it was no longer possible to find the same feeling as before.   The forum I mentioned above is http://sonicbbs.eastday.com/; you can go and take a look. I believe the first impression it gives people is that it’s no longer like a **forum**.   So I agree with the view of the moderator of Langtaosha: 1. It is recommended to give out fewer red envelopes. 2. Hold more forum events and reward active members to help them upgrade, rather than lowering the overall threshold for joining the forum.   I’ve written so much in one go; these are just my personal opinions, meant solely for others to give their feedback. Haichuan has already become the most important forum in my eyes, and I hope it will continue to thrive! This post was last edited by icesharp on 2008-3-4 20:55]

The current hierarchical structure is clearly unreasonable; our intermediate class should consist of junior high and high school students, but their numbers are pitifully small. The purpose of this discussion is to get everyone thinking about how to turn nails into spindles; there’s no need to stick strictly to the leader’s proposal – different ideas can be considered!

Regarding the two factors of reputation and contribution in the calculation, I personally think that contributions can be given to those who donate to the forum, or to the managers and technical staff who organize events on the forum and see them succeed. When calculating the integral, it is also possible to appropriately increase the contributions and their weights. Regarding the rewards for wealth and charm associated with discussions and posts by forum members, I believe they should be given by the forum administrators; of course, active member moderators who participate in discussions should also be rewarded. In this way, it can motivate lower-level members to be more active in the forum, and on the other hand, it can also force moderators to be more involved in forum management.

Something I often do is give extra points to those extremely enthusiastic first-year members – I see them sharing information and helping others solve problems, so I reward them accordingly. I also send them messages and posts advising them to go to the forum’s section for new members to learn how to advance to the second year. Yet, less than half of them actually manage to do so.   Let me share my views on permissions. Since permissions are set, they should correspond to actual rights. Why are there so few such permissions in junior high school? In the 5th grade of elementary school, the reading permission level is 50, which allows one to download almost any type of material. Moreover, in reality, people rarely come across posts that request permissions; by the 3rd grade, the requirements are already met. So what’s the point of going through all the hassle of reaching junior high or even high school if those requirements are already satisfied? It’s all about improving the points system. As for the current incentives for upgrading levels, in my opinion, fifth graders at Haichuan Primary School should have 90 points, sixth graders should have 140 points; other grades should keep their current scores – they can’t be any lower! We are just encouraging everyone to upgrade, we’re not forcing them to!   Finally, let me share my ideas. Given the current situation, we could establish a HaiChuan membership club. Members of this club would have titles, and these titles can be upgraded based on the total number of flowers and gifts received. All club members would be entitled to receive blessings and rewards such as gifts and benefits on special occasions. No points system is used within the club; instead, flowers or gifts are used as rewards. Access to information and help from others can be obtained right away; the requirement to join the club can be set at grade 5, with adjustments made in the future as the average level of members increases. This post was last edited by naska on 2008-3-4 23:03]

After reading the comments on floor 20, I think it’s absolutely unacceptable to follow this approach. That’s how games have evolved over time: in online games, when new equipment is introduced, if you want to be stronger than others, you need to purchase it. Two months later, new equipment that can beat the one you have appears, and you still have to buy it; the same thing happens again after another two months. The outcome of such a approach in games is obvious. Giving up long-term benefits for short-term gains is not a good strategy. We shouldn’t adopt this way of surviving as seen in games. Last edited by Langtaosha on 2008-3-5 15:14.]

Personally, I am not in favor of lowering the requirements for upgrades just because it is difficult for members to advance to higher levels.    If HaiChuan can indeed be compared to a university, then the current system in schools is one of easy admission but strict graduation requirements: opportunities are provided to you, and then your abilities are assessed. So what goal can Hai Chuan achieve by adopting a lenient approach now? What other benefits will there be besides increasing the number of students in grades three and four? Will it also activate the forum? I really don’t think that getting something without working for it can inspire people to strive. Being demoted at most brings a little joy, but if the demotion isn’t a general drop in status, wouldn’t it lead to increasing disappointment as one moves further down, since the gap grows larger? . .   To put it simply, forums should not actively or explicitly encourage upgrades; after all, the focus of a technical forum is on the content of discussions, and people shouldn’t be concerned about their own levels, as this could lead to unhealthy trends.   Furthermore, I am more in favor of stimulating domestic demand rather than lowering barriers; what do I mean by that? To improve the membership tiers, attractive rewards can be given to those who actively participate in discussions and contribute meaningfully. This not only encourages their active involvement but also helps to improve the tier structure, without the need to keep adjusting the criteria frequently (as frequent changes give the impression of instability). Of course, this can also be turned into a special event: for example, April could be designated as “Haichuan’s Craftsmanship Month,” during which higher rewards are offered for discussions on craftsmanship-related topics, while December could be made “Haichuan’s Equipment Technology Month” with increased reward amounts. Such initiatives are beneficial and manageable. . . Otherwise, by lowering the requirements for upgrading, what will you do if grades three, four, and five become too common in the future? Should junior high be reduced further, or should grades three, four, and five be raised? This post was last edited by sophia on 2008-3-5 10:46.]

Indeed, the base of users at the lower levels in HaiChuan is extremely large. One day, with nothing to do, I checked my ranking on the forum and found that I was quite high up on the list; meanwhile, more than two-thirds of the members were still at very low levels. This isn’t conducive to the development of the forum. Once I have time to conduct a detailed analysis, I’ll be able to see just how large this group of users at lower levels really is. That’s why I give higher scores to users at the lower levels, especially those in grades 1 and 2, so as to encourage them to participate more actively in the development of the forum