1.2 million tons of catalysis – domestic or imported DCS?
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For 1.2 million tons of catalytic processing, both the unit’s anti-surge speed control and the plant interlocks are handled by separate ITCC systems. For our financial management needs, an imported DCS would also work, but after dealing with imported systems several times, it became frustrating – there are many complications involved. In this case, what are the advantages and disadvantages of using domestic and imported DCS systems? Please help analyze this. Our analysis: Reason for importing: Importing offers greater reliability. With problems, the responsibility is smaller. Reason for using domestic products: Domestic options such as Hollyland’s SM and Zhongkong’s ECS100 also have satisfactory reliability, along with good after-sales service. Problems are inevitable in engineering projects, but many of them can be easily resolved. There are many issues with importing services coordination. Spare parts are easy to find. I suffered losses by using imported spare parts; now both sets of imported ones have been replaced with domestic ones. Domestic options are cheaper; as far as I know, there is only one set of domestic DCS available for catalytic processes involving 1.2 million tons, and another set for catalytic processes involving 1.4 million tons is under discussion. Additionally, 600MW can use domestic products; can 1.2 million tons of catalyst also be used?
For large projects, foreign options are chosen; for small projects, domestic ones will suffice
This device is quite large; be careful.
The main production equipment is still likely to be imported, as safety and reliability come first; auxiliary equipment can use domestic products. However, the localization of DCS is also a trend; it would be possible to go and investigate how well domestic versions perform. But as mentioned earlier, it seems that only one set is in use. I still have some questions: what are the specific differences between domestic DCS systems and imported ones, and in what ways does the better reliability of imported systems manifest itself? Whether it’s software or communication networks, if an entire plant uses a single control room, how exactly is this to be implemented?
It’s imported. Kids, be sure not to get confused!
In my personal opinion, the only difference between imported and domestic products lies in the relative stability of their systems, which is determined by the length of time those systems have been in use in the market. Domestic products started developing later, so their overall stability and reliability may be lower compared to imported brands such as Honeywell and Emerson. They are also used less frequently in large-scale projects. Therefore, if funds permit, it is recommended to opt for imported products; after all, most of the so-called imported products are now localized in China, ensuring consistent quality. However, the control system for compressors doesn’t necessarily have to be imported; as far as I know, the compressor control system in the Zhenhai PX plant was implemented by an ITCC company, which is a system integrator based in Chengdu.
The device is so large; it’s better to use imported ones. It costs a bit more, but it gives peace of mind
I think considering only the reliability of individual components is just one factor among them. Another factor is service. Why foreign services can enhance the value of their products (which is what the original poster meant by “annoying”): 1. In the initial stage, they can provide a suitable and vetted plan for specific projects (a process that requires a lot of time and cooperation on our part as well as theirs) ； 2. Provide products of reliable quality ； (Including providing complete documents, supporting materials, etc.) 3. If specified in the contract, they can also offer comprehensive IQOQ support along with the relevant documents ； 4. Fast and proper after-sales service ； Comprehensive technical support ； I have dealt with many foreign manufacturers, some of whom possess capabilities that our domestic companies do not have ； It’s hard to find a truly good domestic manufacturer that has skills, quality products, and excellent service!
It’s better to use imported systems; domestic ones are not well-suited for large-scale systems! Imported ones, especially those from companies like Yokogawa, have extensive experience in the petrochemical industry!
Hello, “Long winds for ten thousand miles”! The imported system you have chosen is performing well, so it should be continued to be used. Two sets of imported systems were replaced. What’s the reason? If it is a wrong choice, it should not be the system’s responsibility ； If it’s due to a system issue, what exactly is the situation? It is now a catalytic unit with a capacity of 1.2 million tons, and the reliability of the system should be given top priority. If the catalytic unit stops operating unexpectedly once, what is the amount of loss incurred? How much time and effort will it take for the facility to resume production again? The start-up and shutdown of the unit also have a significant impact on the equipment (flue gas fans, main fans, boosters, turbines, compressors, as well as dry gas seals and the two-tank system). These are the specific details to determine whether the application will be useful in practice. Although these are all minor aspects, they are things that we need to consider carefully from the outset.
Hello, “Long winds for ten thousand miles”! The imported system you have chosen is performing well, so it should be continued to be used. Two sets of imported systems were replaced. What’s the reason? If it is a wrong choice, it should not be the system’s responsibility ； If it’s due to a system issue, what exactly is the situation? It is now a catalytic unit with a capacity of 1.2 million tons, and the reliability of the system should be given top priority. If the catalytic unit stops operating unexpectedly once, what is the amount of loss incurred? How much time and effort will it take for the facility to resume production again? The start-up and shutdown of the unit also have a significant impact on the equipment (flue gas fans, main fans, boosters, turbines, compressors, as well as dry gas seals and the two-tank system). These are the specific details to determine whether the application will be useful in practice. Although these are all minor aspects, they are things that we need to consider carefully from the outset.
You must choose an imported one for such a large system. If there are some problems, it causes a lot of trouble. Our company chooses the Yokogawa CS3000 for both its old and new systems. The service at Xi’an Yokogawa is excellent.
My personal suggestion is to use imported products; if cost control is a strict requirement for your project, you could consider using Yokogawa products. There are significant differences in the brand preferences for DCS systems in the power and petrochemical industries. It seems that as of now, there are no reports of domestic achievements in catalysis, reforming, or cracking processes involving capacities of over 1 million tons. Often, it seems that all we care about is the cost of the control system itself. In fact, many times, the total cost of control systems combined is not even enough to cover the cost of just one component within the device. The petrochemical industry places more emphasis on instruments than on DCS systems. With the support of bus-type intelligent instruments, it is generally the best approach to use instruments from different manufacturers or groups, in combination with their respective DCS systems. Domestic manufacturers do not have any notable products in the field of petrochemical instrumentation.
Yokogawa options can be considered; there are also service personnel available in the country.
It is recommended to use the Yokogawa CS3000 or ABB’s 800F – they offer good cost-performance ratios. Honewell and Emerson are too expensive, although they perform well. Yokogawa has mature technology, but its spare parts and service costs are high; ABB offers better prices for services and spare parts, though its performance level is lower. Foxboro should also be a good option. In the event of an unexpected shutdown, the system should be able to restart smoothly (without any issues related to forced restarting). For domestic options, Zhejiang University’s products can be considered – they have good performance in the chemical industry but operate on a smaller scale. However, maintenance personnel must have the ability to handle emergencies
Taking into account factors such as start-up and shutdown losses, system cost, reliability, service, and spare parts, imported products should be chosen. I will never choose domestic products; it’s not necessarily true that domestic products offer better service – Seiko and Yokogawa provide good service.
I support using domestic products! First: The quality of domestic products has improved significantly over the years, and there are no major issues anymore. Second: excellent after-sales service. Third: Spare parts are easy to obtain. Fourth: Low price. Fifth: The SIS system is definitely based on foreign technology, which ensures security. If you are concerned that domestic DCS systems may be unstable when used in large-scale systems, it is advisable to divide the catalytic unit into three sections; using three separate DCS systems can also solve the problem. Finally, it is essential to obtain the leader’s approval.
The original poster had better choose imported products; domestic ones cannot guarantee proper service after a certain period of use, even though foreign products are more expensive. Due to a failure in the DCS controller switch of a domestic company (the system had been in use for 7 years), our company basically abandoned domestic systems altogether.
19# kkrogue supports domestic products
600MW can use domestic products; 1.2 million tons – I think that’s also feasible
I advocate using domestic ones, such as those from Zhejiang University and HollySys. In recent years, DCS technology in China has become mature, and its use has been quite stable. Foreign products were introduced earlier, and people are already familiar with them; especially in the petrochemical industry, where companies have substantial financial resources, they tend to use well-known foreign brands such as Honeywell and Yokogawa. But in terms of performance ratio, it is still the domestic DCS. In my opinion, the key aspect of a catalytic cracking unit is not its processing capacity; the control schemes are the same in all cases. Though small in size, it has all the necessary components. Our company installed a Zhejiang University JX-300 unit in 2004, and it has been in use to this day without any malfunctions. State-owned products can be used.