How much do you know about the amazing phenomena that exist in engineering construction?
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As mentioned in the title, please feel free to comment on the phenomena you have seen. (Actually, I don’t know whether I should post this topic here. If it hurts some engineering friends, please forgive me. ) for example: The materials are purchased by the owner himself, and the construction unit pays for the installation. We once found that the construction unit colluded with the owner's supplier to manipulate the amount of insulation materials used in the project. The specific operation process is as follows. If the installation requires 1,000 cubic meters of insulation cotton, and the quota loss is 5%, or 50 cubic meters, the actual construction unit can accurately calculate and then reduce the quota to 1%, or 10 cubic meters. There will be a phenomenon in the middle, that is, the construction unit controls the loss of materials to 1%, and the remaining 4%, or 40 cubic meters, directly requires the owner's supplier to convert 100% of the supply price into cash for itself. Friends who have done projects know that insulation materials can range from tens of thousands of cubic meters to millions of cubic meters in project construction. It is amazing! If the supplier does not comply, it will challenge the supplier for various reasons, such as 1. Failure to unload the goods in time (directly resulting in innocent losses of the supplier's vehicles and personnel costs), 2. Not caring for the owner's materials when unloading (in some large-scale engineering projects, the owner's personnel are limited, and it is impossible to watch the construction unit unload the materials on site all the time). When encountering owners who do not know how to distinguish the quality of materials, the suppliers will even go to the owners to sue the suppliers, saying how they do not supply materials well and supply poor materials, etc. Don’t forget to talk about how to prevent this phenomenon. Our approach is to 1. strive to improve the engineering construction and construction supervision professional level of our engineers, and 2. to directly expel the construction unit to avoid future troubles. For EPC package projects, there are so many cases of cheating and cheating. Regarding this fixed loss, I have always wanted to ask my engineering friends how they determined it. According to that * * standards or industry standards. Our projects are determined together with supervision and evaluation experts. Friends who know about it must inform us. This post was last edited by laiqi on 2009-3-30 20:53 ]
The best way is to purchase materials from your own company. For projects that our company has carried out for more than ten years, we always insist on purchasing the main materials from our own company to avoid unnecessary losses.
Don't overgeneralize on the first floor. Standardized project management is to eliminate the abnormal phenomena you refer to. It's not good to describe your unit's management oversight or collusion as a "common phenomenon." If I were an owner or general contractor, the construction unit or supplier you are referring to has already been included in the "market access list" for careful consideration. This post was last edited by Wise Man Ming on 2009-3-24 08:51 ]
The poster is not an engineer, so he may not understand it very clearly. If it is a project involving labor and materials, both parties A and B will clearly explain the material issues in the contract. If it is a project that does not include materials, the construction unit will mostly go to Party A's warehouse to get them, and the management of all materials supplied by Party A will be supervised by the general contractor. PS: The owner's suppliers are all very good, and the poster praises the construction company too much... Personal opinion, based only on a few projects I have participated in, I can't help but laugh at it: lol
The poster is too general. Our company has been engaged in construction for decades and this phenomenon has never happened. Besides, when raising a budget, it is usually the construction unit that raises the budget. It asks for as much as it needs. If the budget is too high and the materials cannot be used, the owner will punish the construction unit. Besides, even if it is accurate to 1% before construction, even if it is accurate to 10%, it is impossible. Insufficient materials will cause construction delays, which is a big deal. Especially if the materials are a little bit different in the later stage, it will be very laborious. Therefore, I disagree with the original poster’s idea.
Is it a dream to be accurate to 1%? Maybe 1% is controllable for an individual item, and within 5% for the overall project. If there is no cutting corners and not doing what should be done, then it is definitely a company with excellent management. The so-called actual construction is cutting corners and extravagance and waste.
What the poster said is too extreme, and I think your project is too special. Your construction procedures are a bit chaotic. When you go to a construction project, you will understand that the materials cannot be controlled so accurately, and the construction unit has to provide a budget. If the construction unit cannot be used, the owner will punish the construction unit. There is a material margin for every project, and it is prepared for sporadic projects such as later additions and changes. If you have to provide a budget for current procurement of even a few materials, you will be in trouble.
Regarding the situation provided by LZ, I have rarely encountered it in more than ten years of owner project management, but some minor problems will inevitably arise. I would like to offer some personal opinions on this.: 1. Regarding the reasonable loss of installation materials, statistical orders are generally made according to quotas (or conventions), the total quantity of materials is controlled, and the goods are purchased in batches according to the progress of the project. ； At the same time, we (the owner) signed an exposure contract with the material supplier with a fixed unit price and payment based on the actual supply volume. 2. The problem of unloading materials on site depends on the construction contract. If the corresponding responsibilities of the construction party are not specified in the contract, the supplier will generally be responsible for unloading small items, while large materials will be entrusted to the construction unit to unload and pay a certain fee. 3. In principle, whoever purchases the materials is responsible for the quality issues of the materials on site, but corresponding quality inspection methods or written reports must be provided. 4. Choosing a regular construction unit is key, and it is also important to win the bid at a reasonable and low price. 5. According to the current market conditions, it is better to use a contract based on the comprehensive unit price of the bill of quantities. For reference!
Here is a little lesson to share with you: The engineering project general contracting model EPC is really dark. . .
I deeply apologize for the comments made by those above. It's because I didn't express myself very clearly. What needs to be clarified is that 1. Our usage quantity has the net quantity and required purchase quantity given by the design unit in the design material table. We purchase according to the required purchase quantity. , 2. The installation contract I signed with the construction unit is as follows - the unloading of materials, secondary transportation and storage are all handled by the construction unit (this cost is included in the installation fee), and the owner provides the location. When unloading materials, the owner and the construction unit shall jointly sign and witness, and the construction unit shall receive and store all materials. The above brings us to the management model
I have a few opinions on this post and welcome your corrections.: 1. In the past ten years of work, I have not found any construction unit that dares to challenge the suppliers designated by the owner. There are many hidden rules in the project, and the supplier's relationship network is also very complicated. The background is related to the project, so there is no need for the construction unit to mess with the people behind the suppliers. 2. Most of the current projects are EPC or PC general contracting. The general contractor provides the main materials and the construction unit provides auxiliary materials. If the construction unit uses its brains on auxiliary materials, it is a matter for the construction unit to manage. As long as it does not affect the physical quality, the owner and the general contractor have no need to take care of it. 3. In order to facilitate management, the division of labor for material supply is generally clearly stated during the bidding process. Which materials are provided by Party A and the others by Party B. This is clearly stated in the contract when signing the contract, which can avoid a lot of trouble. Like the insulation cotton mentioned by LZ, in the projects I have worked on, Party B supplies it by itself, and Party A's procurement department approves the price (for settlement). During the construction process, the quality of incoming materials is controlled by supervisors (the owner pays them to hire them). 4. I agree with what was said above. As an owner, it is very important to choose a formal construction unit. Although there are many labor subcontracting situations now, if the contractor that the owner directly faces is a formal unit, their management is in place, and generally there will be no major problems. If we overpay for materials, we will be fined 120% during settlement, so the construction unit basically does not overpay. 5. If LZ is engaged in engineering management, it is recommended that LZ learn project management and have more contact with front-line managers. It will be good for you. :handshake
I have deep experience with the amazing construction phenomena mentioned by the author. In construction projects, the general contracting management subcontracts the project to subcontractors through subcontracting agreements, and the general contracting achieves maximum profits. When subcontractors are constructing, because their reasonable profit margins are squeezed by the general contractor, in order to make money, subcontractors will resort to various means on-site against suppliers, such as: Delaying the hoisting time, rough loading and unloading, and random stacking, forcing the supplier to be in trouble in order to demand the corresponding fees. The motivation behind it stems from their respective economic interests.
:L is correcting the first one. If you mean going according to the quota, then I didn’t mention it. Because the quota has clearly taken into account the loss. The bigger the project, the more profitable it is to go according to the quota, and the smaller the project, the more losses it will make. Second, what I call 5% loss is based on the construction drawings (or the list pulled out by PDMS, not the list calculated by people’s subjective calculations), which is the real quantity after completion. Third, my position is that of the general contractor, and I look at the problem from a different perspective. Your loss should actually be regarded as a dispute of interests, rather than accounting for the actual construction composition. For example, if the contractor reports loss to you, it will report a 5% loss of the overall material together with the valves. What is the reality? Is it possible that a few valves were stolen during the construction? Many times the quotation is too low and there is no profit, and the final loss is reported to be higher, so add it in. This post was last posted by bastaro on 2009-3-24 15:45 Edit ]
I would like to add that if you follow the quota, there will be no loss. Because the quota is fully automatic, when building a 100-meter pipeline, it will be automatically counted as 105-meter pipeline material. It is estimated that the construction unit is calculating the loss again with you. As for other untimely unloading, etc., what you need is a good project manager. Instead of complaining about the contractor, in one sentence: the brutal construction delays unloading, and the losses caused will be deducted from Party B's project payment. That solves the problem.
Finally, let me tell you a secret about quality control. Just have a chat with the person in charge of the construction site when you have time: If there is a XX quality problem, you will give me XXOO to start over. According to the XX contract (or XX specification), all the money should be paid by yourself. If it fails once, you will have to pay it back twice, and if it fails three times or more, the entire project payment can be deducted. This is probably what it means. The first time I went to the site, I followed an old project manager, and he kept nagging about this all day long. I felt annoyed, but later I was in charge of the project and found out that if I talked more nonsense, the quality would improve immediately.
The owner wants to starve the construction unit to death. Even normal wear and tear is stuck. You can tell at a glance that he is just starting out. Go to the construction unit for a few years to fully understand the difficulties.
When will there be no profiteers?
Hidden rules exist everywhere. There are policies from above and countermeasures from below. We can only try to improve the management model to reduce* *
The water involved in engineering projects is very deep and cannot be understood by ordinary people.
There are so many unreasonable things in the project.
The project is very dark and there are many unspoken rules, but as long as you don't go out of your way and the progress and quality can be guaranteed, it doesn't matter. For general contractors, every time a project is completed, a post-evaluation of the participating subcontractors should be carried out. If there is a construction unit * * As the poster said, he should be blacklisted and removed from the list of qualified subcontractors, so that no more projects can be subcontracted to him in the future.