What are the important online analyses available for hydrogen peroxide production systems?

This post was last edited by qugd on 2020-3-10 21:29. First, what you most want to know is the purity or concentration of the product, and then the composition of the material. The changes in physical and chemical properties during the reaction process are also some of the parameters for process operation and control. It would be best for you to take a look at the specific process involved in hydrogen peroxide production. The raw materials and process procedures of the sulfate electrolysis method and the ethyl anthraquinone method differ greatly. There are also significant differences between online analytical instruments and methods. As for process improvements, you need to spend money on them; you can’t achieve improvements just by posting messages – otherwise, research institutes and design agencies would be useless.

Thank you for your participation! First of all, we have old devices that have been in use for over a decade, so I am certainly very familiar with their operational principles as well as all the various parameter control points. But after all, we are in production, not in design; many pieces of information are provided by our production units through feedback to the design institutes, which is what helps them determine the direction for updating their technologies. Furthermore, not all design institutes are of high quality ； And as everyone knows about market economies, just by paying a design institute, you don’t necessarily get what you want. Of course, when introducing new equipment, it is necessary to adopt the latest technologies. Design for various specialties, SIL classification of instruments, and HAZOP analysis all require more advanced, safer, and thorough considerations. Domestic design institutes have many years of experience in designing such equipment, but their standards do not reach international levels. I don’t think that a few weeks of expert consultations are enough to achieve comprehensiveness ； Gu started this discussion thread. Those responsible for production are, of course, more concerned with matters related to production. The purpose of online analysis is not limited to just these aspects as you mentioned; it’s equally important to have a connection between the eyes and the instruments. It’s also possible to take readings via online analysis and transmit them, connect them to instrument settings logic, and thereby create more comprehensive cause-and-effect diagrams, thus improving the overall control system. . . This makes the operation of the device more reliable. It’s just that regarding online analysis, I’m not sure whether the manufacturers available on the market have made any updates; whether the process of manually collecting sample tubes for analysis can now be done online – this represents an improvement in technology. Also, could it be that some experienced members among the users have thought of issues that we haven’t considered (issues that the design institute has not taken into account yet)? Gu posted to discuss it. As for whether the design institute is exposed to the north wind or not, that’s their concern; perhaps even if you give them meat, they may not have the ability to eat it. ..............After all, great heroes have always come from the common people!! I hope everyone will engage in active discussions!

Sharing my humble opinion, currently, the production of hydrogen peroxide via the anthraquinone method relies mainly on the traditional process (with an alkali tower) and the new process (using a fully acidic working fluid system). Fluidized bed technology is not discussed here, as I have no practical experience with it. Back to the main topic, for online analysis instruments, different design institutes do produce designs that vary from each other; for example, regarding the hydrogen content at the end of a fixed-bed reactor, the oxygen content in the exhaust gas from an oxidation tower, the concentration of hydrogen peroxide, the pH value, and so on. One thing is certain: an online oxygen content analyzer (thermomagnetic type) for the exhaust gas from the oxidation tower is essential; the rest depends on the owner’s investment decisions – they are not mandatory and offline analysis can be used instead. I can’t remember whether the pH value is necessary in the old process. After conducting a HAZOP analysis, it was found that the oxygen content in the exhaust gas from the oxidation tower is the key factor.

What we have just started to implement is fluidized bed technology – it’s something from abroad. It’s still in the design stage at present, and we can’t let others dictate our actions; that’s why we’ve come here to seek advice from experts in this field:$

Thank you for your participation! The old techniques used at Reimeiin that you mentioned (which have now been updated) have been in use for over a decade; the latest comprehensive calculation systems (not yet used) – I’m aware of all of them. There are no alkali towers at the back, but it’s not completely free of alkali either: lol. The process flow is the same as that in a fixed-bed reactor, but there are many design elements present in it that are not found in fixed-bed reactors, which is quite problematic; for now, it’s not possible to make use of these elements.

In fact, the concept of being entirely acidic is very good and easy to convince people of. There are also many engineering cases available on the market. It can be considered successful, but it cannot be called mature (it is not environmentally friendly at present). The physicochemical properties of certain solvents in the formulation of the working fluid indeed pose many challenges during operation. The design of the fixed-bed reactor is a complex matter; it’s quite difficult to control the hydrogen partial pressure, and there is uneven pressure distribution within the bed layer – there is room for improvement. Additionally, the regeneration of the working fluid and the control of pH (which is part of our traditional process) are both important aspects to consider in operations. Hydrogenation is indeed an important part, but it is said that even after several decades, no one has been able to truly figure out to what extent the chemical reactions involved actually take place. The degree of hydrogenation directly determines the physicochemical properties of the components in the working fluid, and this is quite difficult to control. The catalyst itself is not too difficult to manufacture in terms of meeting the process requirements, but controlling the degree of hydrogenation becomes a significant problem. You might think there’s an issue with the operation, but it was designed by the design institute. You said the operation is fine, right? The hydrogen efficiency varies from time to time. Wait a while; when I have time and am free, I’ll organize some of the experiences I’ve accumulated over the years and share them with everyone. Solvay’s technology is really quite good; is there anyone who can crack it? I remember that back in the day we had a great expert in alkali production, Mr. Hou Debang, who managed to overcome Solvay’s challenges and brought joy to the whole world. We worship, we worship.

I’d like to share my humble opinion: There won’t be much innovation in fixed-bed reactors going forward; the existing fixed-bed processes in China are continuing to operate as they have always done. On the other hand, fluidized-bed reactors are essential for new projects launched in recent years, or rather, they represent the direction in which the industry is developing. Regarding fluidized beds, there is no mature process package available in China; only a pilot project carried out by Sinopec Balin in 2019, which has not seen any further development to date – only reports exist, as is typical of the working style of large state-owned enterprises. Foreign process packages can only use their own technologies; all control points and analysis points are designed based on existing designs or production experience, and their suggestions are hardly taken into account, unless you are proposing to add new control points. In essence, the fluidized bed represents a change in the hydrogenation process; changes in other processes are minimal. Different foreign process packages use different working fluids and catalysts, as well as different parameters at the testing points. Therefore, for new projects, it is only possible to provide sound recommendations after the production has been ongoing for some time. Could Mr. Zhang reveal which foreign company owns the technology for fluidized beds? I hope that our domestic fluidized bed process package will be available soon.

There won’t be anything new from design firms; after all, it’s a brick-and-mortar industry. :D won’t get criticized, right? Only research institutes or manufacturing companies with some experience can come up with better suggestions. :handshake

Posts that have been buried for so long, and yet there are still people who reply – I’m truly overjoyed! (Our 20,000-ton island nation-based processing technology isn’t good enough to be mentioned in detail; I’ll share my insights when I have the chance.) The fixed-bed process is also quite good, but due to the current trend of HPO/HPPO processes in China, these processes need to be scaled up several times, which puts the fixed-bed process at a disadvantage in this regard. It is understood that domestic fluidized bed technology has been around for a long time, with actual operational examples available since early on. There isn’t much information available online at the moment; perhaps it’s due to issues related to intellectual property protection. I guess news about domestic fluidized bed technologies will start to emerge gradually from July or August this year. :)