【JST-007】One-on-one Help and Q&A Office for Chemical Analysis

First of all, I would like to extend a warm welcome! As a beginner in this field, I have many even more silly questions to ask. I hope you won’t mind; after all, we have enough courage to learn, so there’s no need to be afraid of asking wrong questions. I have a question to ask today regarding online analysis. In online analysis instruments, samples are generally taken from the main pipeline, and after analysis the samples are released. Although the amount released is small, the cumulative loss over a year can be significant. However, if the samples are sent back to the main pipeline, the pressure there becomes insufficient. Is there any technology available to recycle this amount of sample?

This post was last edited by qugd on 2013-8-10 17:38. Whether the retrieved samples are recycled or returned generally depends on the following principles: material costs, environmental safety, and ease of handling. But today’s HSE requirements are strict, and random discharge is definitely restricted, so returning or recycling becomes a practical issue. Whether for liquid or gas samples, when a return is required, there must be a force to drive the return; generally, this is achieved using the pressure difference between the outlet and the return side. However, when the pressure difference is insufficient or nonexistent, it is advisable to add a pump or employ an auxiliary high-pressure jetting method. For instance, a Venturi tube can be used to return the downstream sample back into the main pipeline. The advantage of this method is that it allows for continuous operation at low cost, provided that the jetting medium does not affect the usability of the recovered material. If a recirculation pump is used, when the sample is liquid, it is recommended to employ intermittent operation for recycling, which saves energy consumption and extends the pump’s service life.

In accordance with quality management practices, analyzed samples (including bypass samples that were not analyzed) must not be returned to the main line without special treatment once they have been separated from it. Therefore, after analysis, the sample is considered scrap and is handled according to the scrap disposal procedures. To return, there must be a separate product management procedure, and based on analysis, the return is done by product, intermediate product, raw material grade, etc. It is usually downgraded or demoted. For those that are toxic, harmful, or pose safety risks, stricter requirements apply; even when treated as waste and burned, managing them is quite troublesome. I’ve calculated the losses from my analysis; at market prices, it’s several hundred thousand per year – it’s really painful to think about!

Welcome, qugd, to the analysis section. I would like to ask you, qugd: what do you think are the differences between laboratories in chemical plants and specialized laboratories, especially in terms of the quality of the staff? In chemical plants, it’s quite clear that laboratories serve as places to employ family members and related staff. Many automated equipment companies are also reluctant to adopt such systems; even if they do, it’s just for show. This results in a heavily overstaffed laboratory, low efficiency, and low salaries for the staff.

If the material is an intermediate in the manufacturing process, and the selected analysis method is non-contaminating and non-destructive, then it is possible to return the material to the pipeline downstream of the sampling point, through appropriate sampling and a reliable method of returning it. However, for finished products or product materials and media, it is necessary to choose methods such as return, discharge, or centralized recycling based on the potential contamination arising from the analysis process. This requires consulting the user’s opinions, having the user provide certain utility conditions, and adding supplementary facilities to the pretreatment system. Currently, many factories have very strict HSE requirements; even some water samples are not allowed to be discharged on-site. When designing pre-treatment and analysis systems, there are often discussions regarding whether the samples should be discharged or sent back, and these discussions involve engineers and process specialists, in addition to seeking input from the users’ environmental supervision departments. For some samples that are flammable, explosive, or toxic, it is even more difficult to handle them; therefore, every effort is made to send them back, otherwise the inspection will not be approved, and it will even be hard to meet the requirements of the technical agreement.

This post was last edited by qugd on 2013-8-11 at 10:26. Brother, this problem has really stumped me. This should fall under the scope of corporate human resource management; it has little to do with the technical aspect. The only explanation is the difference between a factory’s laboratory and a specialized laboratory. Factory laboratory: It serves the production processes of the enterprise; the analysis tasks are carried out to monitor the production process and ensure product quality. What is required of the personnel in this field is not a broad range of knowledge, but rather in-depth expertise. Good analysis and testing staff in the factory need to understand the company’s manufacturing processes, the composition of materials, and the characteristics of processing changes, so as to support production activities and product quality control. Specialized laboratories: I understand they refer to testing and analysis departments in some third-party organizations or specialized research institutions, but this scope is too broad. The testing and analysis conducted by research institutions are likely to be geared toward the research direction and related fields; they serve a guiding or evaluative purpose in relation to research. Alongside routine analytical tests that complement research efforts, there are also forward-looking developmental studies as well as analytical and applied research aimed at practical applications. However, some third-party testing laboratories follow **or industry-standard analysis methods, equip themselves with the appropriate instruments and equipment, and accept samples for testing from society, organizations, and even individuals. They operate in the service sector, and there is a great variation in their professional competence; some may be merely laboratory technicians, while others could be analytical chemists. For subsequent questions, please seek answers from your company’s human resources department or the assistant to the general manager; I am not in a position to comment on your company’s employment policies. If your company invites me to visit you for an inspection and study trip, I would be very happy to go, and there should be a work lunch or a reception, right?

:Handshake – impressive, really impressive. The laboratory technicians in our factory do need to improve their understanding of the production processes, so as to be able to provide test results and analyses in a convenient and accurate manner. Spot on.

Hehe. . Congratulations first. Back in the day, I almost ended up working in analysis as well

The gas at the top of the wash tower consists of about 75% wt of ethylene + propylene; the remainder is mainly nitrogen, with a small amount of C4+. The problem is that the online and offline values do not match; the total amount of dienes is roughly the same, but there is more ethylene online and more propylene offline. Some say it’s a sampling issue; the ethylene has escaped. I think in that case the total amount should change, and will only ethylene be measured during sampling? There’s really no solution