HCBBS Forum (English)
Submit Chemical Projects / Find Solutions
Amplify Your Requirements on a Broader Chemical Platform *Engineering · Technology · Equipment · Solutions*
Submit Request

They really go all out to save costs!

2024-05-30View Original

Thread Content

This post was last edited by Douwan on 2024-5-31 09:06. A few days ago, I was at a factory for a safety inspection and came across such a device: Nitrogen/Air buffer tank. Operating pressure: 0.8 MPa; Design pressure: 0.84 MPa. Temperature: 100°C; Design temperature: 110°C. Material: Q345R; Corrosion allowance C = 1 mm. Dimensions (diameter/height): φ1200*2000. 20% partial non-destructive testing; Welding joint coefficient: 0.85/0.8. Structure: standard elliptical head + supported bearings; maximum pipe diameter is DN80. The equipment is equipped with a safety valve, with a set pressure of 0.84 Mpa. Oh, right, I forgot to mention the wall thickness – it’s 4.5 mm for the cylinder ; Head 4.5 (4.05) __________________________________________ In fact, based on an analysis of the data, the manufacturer of this device has set all parameters at their minimum values in order to save costs: 1) The design pressure is set at 1.05 times the minimum value ; 2) The value of the corrosion allowance shall be 1 mm, in accordance with the minimum requirement specified in GB150 ; 3) The setting pressure of the safety valve shall, in accordance with GB150, not be greater than the design pressure; that is, the design pressure shall be used ; From a standard specification perspective, although all the values mentioned above represent the minimum values, they are still within legal and regulatory limits. What surprised me was that the drawings indicated a cylinder thickness of 4.5 mm, while the minimum thickness of the head after molding was 4.05 mm. By doing the calculations manually, the thickness of the cylinder body is 3.15 + 1.3 = 4.45 mm; 0.05 mm is really not much as a margin. As for the thickness of the head, based on the welding joint coefficient specified in the drawings, 4.05 mm is not sufficient to meet the strength requirements. It is assumed that the manufacturer formed the head from a single sheet of metal, and while they intended to use a welding joint coefficient of 1.0, the drawings specify 0.8 instead. From a structural design perspective, cost savings have led to the omission of inspection holes such as manholes or access holes. However, according to regulatory requirements, inspection holes should be provided when internal inspections are necessary (i.e., surface inspections). In this case, since internal surface inspections are not required per regulations, and there are no internal components that need cleaning during operation, it’s understandable why the manufacturer did not include such holes. In the manufacturer’s non-destructive testing report, local RT testing was carried out using the “double-wall single-shadow method”: 2 tests were conducted on Class A welds and 6 on Class B welds. According to standard practices, this method is usually used for the last circumferential weld on cylinders with smaller diameters, as it’s not possible to use the single-wall projection method in those cases. Since the diameter of this equipment is 1200 mm, shouldn’t all inspections have been carried out using the double-wall single-shadow method? Shouldn’t local RT testing have been done first on the welded joints, followed by RT testing on the circumferential welds? After thinking about it, this would require 2 times, making the cost high! The manufacturer uses double-wall single-shadow for everything, solving it all in one step. Thus, costs are saved again. Finally, regarding safety valves, their setting pressure should not be higher than the design pressure; the design pressure itself is used as the reference value. It should be noted that there is a certain deviation in the setting pressure of safety valves – according to the current GB150 standard, this deviation is 3%, while the new draft standards have expanded the range between the setting pressure and the operating pressure of safety valves. The minimum design pressure value + the minimum corrosion margin + a wall thickness with almost no design margin left + the lowest inspection standards + the least stringent inspection methods – is this equipment really safe? It’s like with every car accident: if one left home a few seconds later, perhaps the accident could have been avoided ; If I hadn’t run the yellow light just now, I would be safe now ; If that aunt pushing the stroller hadn’t rushed over in such a hurry, I wouldn’t have had to brake suddenly and turn the steering wheel. Even if I had braked suddenly, if that food delivery worker had stayed in the non-motorized vehicle lane as required, I wouldn’t have hit him... All those random factors, combined together, lead to an inevitable outcome
Reply #22024-05-30
This device does save costs in terms of design and manufacturing, but it poses risks in terms of safety. All parameters have reached or come close to their minimum levels, posing a risk to the safety of the equipment. The setting pressure of the safety valve is the same as the design pressure, and pressure overlimits may occur due to deviations. Overall, although this device is legal and compliant, it may pose security risks in actual use. .
Reply #32024-05-30
8 kilograms and 4.5 millimeters – it’s unimaginable; that’s amazing!
Reply #42024-05-30
It’s just my personal opinion – since this device can pass a hydrostatic test, it must surely have a certain degree of strength margin. Even if there is a deviation in the set pressure of the safety valve, causing it to be 3% higher than the designed pressure or 0.015 MPa, whichever is greater, the pressure will not exceed the hydrostatic test pressure, unless the safety valve is improperly selected and has insufficient discharge capacity, resulting in a continuous increase in system pressure. So, I don’t think there are any major issues with the strength of this device.
Reply #52024-05-30
Does passing a hydrostatic test mean there are no major issues? Do you think the strength is fine? Just calculate it by yourself and you’ll know
Reply #62024-05-30
I agree with you; it’s just like how human behavior is constrained not only by laws but also by moral principles. Just because something isn’t illegal doesn’t mean it can be done; compliance with laws and regulations is a basic requirement. Laws and standards represent only the minimum requirements for products. If this device does not meet the strength requirements, then it is illegal. Even if changing the welding joint coefficient of the head to 1.0 is legal, it is unreasonable.
Reply #72024-05-30
Yes, basically it’s about the safety factor of the materials being used
Reply #82024-05-30
Regarding the RT testing for double-wall single-shadow, I would like to ask everyone some questions. For this detection method, what is the defect detection rate? Standardly, the standard specifies that it should be used only when a single-wall single-shadow method is not feasible. I think it indirectly indicates that it’s something one has to use when there’s no other choice
Reply #92024-05-31
Where does the spirit of craftsmanship come from when bids are won at low prices?
Reply #102024-05-31
I think it depends on the specific circumstances on site. It’s impossible to judge without other factors.

Submit a Project

**Looking for Chemical Technology, Equipment & Solutions?** No Registration Required Broader Platform Exposure | Global Chemical Service Provider Connections

Submit Request — Free Consultation

Disclaimer

This is an automated machine translation of the original thread. Some technical terms may have inaccuracies; the original text shall prevail. Click "View Original" at the top right to access the source page, which supports IP-based automatic real-time language translation. Please watch out for contact details and sales inducements to prevent fraud. All content and translations are for reference only, representing solely the poster's personal views. For enquiries, email service@hcbbs.com.